man affections vs. boy affections

a while back i finally figured out what makes a good relationship.

most of the gamey talk is all focused on getting laid.  getting laid is the easiest thing in the world, after you do it for a while.  what’s not nearly as simple is to maintain an excellent relationship.  i’m going to venture out on a limb and say that MOST relationships are crap.  and yet it’s really just two fundamental principles, that determine the success of any relationship.

it’s ridiculous that it took me so long to figure this out.

my relationships used to be sort of average.  have a girlfriend, sometimes you get along, sometimes you don’t.  sometimes she’s a cunt, sometimes she’s nice.  sooner or later there are the annoying bits of jealousy and wondering if she’s cheating, and then all the arguments and breakups.  standard shit.

to figure out why most relationships suck, eventually you have to look at the type of emotional connection you are seeking:

  • emotional validation from your partner
  • being able to ‘trust’ your partner
  • support from your partner
  • sort of, almost unconditional love from your partner, ‘as you are’
  • seeking approval from your partner

there’s more aspects, but that’s probably enough to make the point we’re getting to.

we are simple creatures.  we are programmed to have an emotional connection to the opposite sex.  to get a little weird about it for a second though, think about how this programming expresses itself:

there are only two types of man-love our brain is wired for.

one, the love you got, wanted to get, hoped for, maybe experienced – from you mother, as a child.  that’s a key kind of emotional connection to the female.  and, as much as that sounds fucked up, it’s the type of connection most men are trying to find again in their adult life – from a girlfriend / wife.

seriously consider this.  look at the few bullet points above.  what kind of ‘love’ is that?  let’s not judge it, just look at it objectively.  that’s how most men view love.  they don’t think about it consciously, but that’s the love they got to experience as a child.

here’s some news:  no girl will ever love you like your mom did.

before we get a bit more into that, let’s look at the other type of man-love our brain has wiring for:

the love a father has for his daughter.

again, we have to remove all the incestous, sexualized, weird bits of it, and just look at the emotional components that drive the type of interaction, expectation, dependence, and outcome.  how does a father love his daughter?

  • giving emotional validation to the child
  • rationing trust, with having ‘hand’ – control
  • providing support
  • molding her in his image
  • giving approval, as long as the child does at it is supposed to

compare these bullets to the ones above.  how do you feel about that?  take out the mother / daughter thing.  just look at the giving & taking ratios, look at where the control lies.

there is always control in a relationship.  question is just – who has it?

there is no other emotional romantic connection wiring in our brain.  it’s either seeking the love you got from your mother as a child, or creating the love you get from your offspring.

everything manosphere talks about fits into this model.  the whole concept of ‘beta’ is embodied in how men deal with women who they want maternal love from.  they are the weak ones, seeking approval, expecting this ocean of support, putting a woman on a pedestal.  and guess what – it works for shit.  mom love is done after you are grown up.  realizing that means having to step away from that, coming to terms with the fact that this kind of emotional bond is DONE.  being a man means being at the top of the social hierarchy.

on the flip side, relationships suddenly work incredibly well when you treat a girl not like an adult that you look up to, an adult that you seek validation from – but like a child.

think about it.  shit tests?  from an adult, maybe.  but a child?  how do you treat a child who shit tests you?  well … a lot of men haven’t grown up enough to be called men, so they still wouldn’t know.  but for some of us, all that’s missing is this conscious realization.  you don’t seek the validation of a child, do you?  you don’t ask a child if it’s ok for you to go out, do you?  when you want a child to do something, how do you address it?

i’m not saying, ‘be a dick’.  you still game children, a lot.  you want to reward them for good behavior.  dealing with kids isn’t easy, either.  but if you figure that out, then you also figure out a healthy relationship with a girl.  i don’t really believe that the ‘asshole game’ is a fully evolved strategy.  it’s just better than wanting a replacement mom.  so when a girl has the choice between a grown up (who is an asshole) vs a sniveling boy who wants a mother – she will of course pick the asshole.

but give her the choice between a father figure, an asshole, and a sniveling boy and the father figure will win, every time.  part of that is giving validation, creating boundaries, being clearly in control.

if you want a great relationship, start reading parenting psychology books (not the new age feminist ones).  and dog training books.

you can take this however far you want, once you get comfortable.  xsplat likes to go full on daddy.  it’s a genius move.  a bit depraved?  maybe.  but better than the advocates of game stuff who act like children themselves – basically saying ‘treat girls like you are 12 and in a sandbox with a girl’.  and better than mainstream culture which puts out disney shit and romantic comedies that all emulate maternal love relationships (which don’t exist).

my relationships have become something entirely different since i started taking the father figure approach.  girls love it.  they are willing to do anything and everything, and the general bullshit from girls is maybe 5% of what it used to be – before i figured this out.

and now, listen to this:!/s/Who+s+Your+Daddy+Fuzzy+Hair+Remix/3WjRsp?src=5

Which one are you with?

you know what i want … comments!


  1. xsplat

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    I love this post! This is a historically important insight you’ve come up with. I mean, we’ve seen the elements of it before, but your explanation is crystallizes it.

  2. jake

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    I had this for a while but what finally snapped it into perspective was you talking about the daddy thing. Props all to you, x.

  3. Yura S

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Excellent post, sounds like it’s really coming from experience.

    Two thoughts popped up while reading:

    1. When do you switch from boyish love to manly love? Oh shit, that doesn’t sound well out of context ) The ancient cultures all had initiation rites which demarcated exactly this kind of thing. The 11/12/13 y/o boy was taken from the women’s quarters, at night, by a band of scary guys and was forced to do some scary shit. Hunt alone, bungee jump, mild body mutilation. After that you became a man, one of the scary guys with painted faces. Or you died. But you never went back to the women’s quarters other than as a man, to fuck.

    In the modern civilization there are no initiation rites. They have been replaced by some rational cues: now is the time to get a job, now is the time to get a family… but this shit doesn’t really work on the subconscious, which hasn’t been jolted by the shock of the rite, and is still stuck in the boy phase.

    2. I suspect that there is a third kind of man-love, the love for the mother of your children, obviously belongs in another relationship model.

  4. jake

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Yea see, that’s an excellent point. Initiation rites. Like with so many other things, culture is the guardian of our collective wisdom – or at least it is, in tribes (in large scale societies it’s about keeping a sheeple farm). I suspect that to live a fully realized life, man has to escape society and find some sort of tribe (in this case, might be the right sort of interwebs blogs).

  5. Yura S

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Are you implying that the loss of initiation rites by our society is a necessary condition for maintaining the sheeple farm? Interesting thought. The typical old-style “men’s movement” literature lamented this loss as if it was omitted by mistake, but yeah, I can see how it is obligatory for the society if it wants to maintain the majority of its men caged in cubicles.

    The women have a biologically built-in initiation (first period), so society cannot influence them that much.

    Yes, a tribe is my quest.

  6. TheShiningOne

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Maybe what we should do is recreate secret societies that would be in charge of this initiatic process. If society cannot provide it for us, then we should do it ourselves

    I don’t think reading and exchanging online with like minded people is enough. rituals have to engage the body, mind, emotions in a total way.

  7. Wudang

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    IMO the mythopoetic movement which does these kind of rites today, PUAs and MRAs should and will fuse together into one thing. The fusion has already started actually as many of the mythopoet guys have become interested in PU and some PUAs in the mythopoets and there has been a lot of fusion between PU and MRA in the last couple of yeras and the Mythopoets are becoming much more MRA inclined.

  8. jake

    December 31, 2012 at 12:00 am

    I still haven’t met any real man who calls himself a pickup artist.

  9. Treylesnorth

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    A Tribe Called Quest… band name amirite?

  10. Theophilus

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    That’s some incisive stuff. Required reading for every male.
    And perfect explanation for why having a relationship with a much younger woman feels so right. It’s easier to assume the paternal role.
    I’ve always said that the dog whisperer guy on TV, Cesar something, must have insane game with the chicks, because the principles are pretty much exactly the same.
    Most pleased you’re writing again. A little hiatus once in a while does wonders.

  11. TheShiningOne

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    The problem is, he didn’t use these principles with his wife (or rather he used them, but reversed), and she ended up divorcing him. See that post (and especially the comments by koanic) and that video of him with her:

    He says in his first book that, having grown up in Mexico, he used to be sexist and treat her badly, but he later realised that he had to act “calm and submissive” with his wife.

  12. Wudang

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Good with the dogs bad with the bitches!

  13. Roger D.

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Big epiphany reading this.

    I had a date with an 18 year old a couple of days ago. Took her back to mine, my usual script, didn’t bang as she’s a virgin. Fantastic to laugh, and make out with her, all those pheremones.

    Also realising that at 39 I’m not doing this kind of thing in spite of my age but because of my maturity.

    Mentally, I have to accept that my youth is going or gone. Time to embrace a new paradigm, and this post (as well as Xsplat’s blog) is an important signpost.

  14. jake

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    20 year old guys have nothing on an older single guy who is living accountably (ie taking care of his shit). We’ve got the cash, the maturity, the experience. The only thing missing for some of that contingent is the confidence knowing that girls WANT the daddy in their life – the same way beta herbs are trying to get mommy back via their girlfriend.

  15. krautz

    December 30, 2012 at 12:00 am

    You can be ‘the daddy’ even if she’s older. I think it’s more about the timelines. In my case is only one year and she’s a grad student and i’m a guy with a good job.

  16. jake

    December 31, 2012 at 12:00 am

    No doubt.

  17. Maverick Traveler

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Great write up.

    The key point here is this:

    “how do you treat a child who shit tests you? well … a lot of men haven’t grown up enough to be called men, so they still wouldn’t know.”

    The “men” in the West are boys. Most 30 and even 35 year old guys that I know look and act like teenagers.

    Now, if you come to countries where being a man is the only way to survive: Russia, Ukraine, etc., you’ll find 25 year old guys that look and act manlier than 40 year guys in the West.

    Once you become a real man, the concept of game and pickup simply disappear — they become a permanent part of who you are.

  18. E.J.

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Found this post from xplat’s blog. Extremely well said.

  19. ErrantVandal

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Sending this over to Dannyfrom504. It should blow his mind.

  20. jake

    December 31, 2012 at 12:00 am

    True. Danny likes good bits.

  21. Wudang

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Awesome post. Iron Jhon by Robert bly covers a lot of this and how it was done in traditonal societies. His work inspired the mythopoetic movement which did does deep internal masculinity work designed to fix stuff such as this and draws on teachings and techniques from traditional tribal societies and their initiation rites in doing so:

    This blog has a lot of related stuff:

  22. Koanic

    December 29, 2012 at 12:00 am

    This is not anti-game, it is pro-Game. The daddy frame has been a part of Game for a long time.

    Daddy game is especially effective on Asian girls. And it’s a good frame for the shallow socket folks, because it reinforces the beta framework of the relationship, which they’re typically worse at once they taste the alpha life.

    Like everything else, there can be a downside, if you get too beta paternalistic, but the deep socket folks are more susceptible to this.

  23. Lou

    December 30, 2012 at 12:00 am

    “have a girlfriend, sometimes you get along, sometimes you don’t. sometimes she’s a cunt, sometimes she’s nice. ”

    This is what I don’t understand about most people and one of the reasons that I’ve only had two girlfriends into my mid 30′s. I don’t put up with any of that and don’t understand why other people do.

    Do you find that the confidence/maturity of the woman might dictate which of these two she plays or will she merge with the man’s expectations? I know a couple of women who don’t need any of those things a father provides, are very attractive and to add to your theme it becomes more of sibling-type relationship.

  24. jake

    December 31, 2012 at 12:00 am

    We put up with it because we’re horny. :) There are some needle-haystack chicks. But it’s kind of illusory to go look for that. Almost all other women require some kind of serious molding and direction. Better to make what you want, than to wait for it.

  25. UCB

    December 30, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Glad to see you’re back to publishing publicly… it was good enough to pull me out of my traditional lurker role.

    I’ve been reading a bunch of xsplat’s stuff lately; and w/o even realizing it, this dynamic has suddenly become a strong part of my relationship frame. Difference is night and day. Basic shit-tests don’t even register, and even the biggest ones become easier to laugh off.

    This extends beyond established relationships though. Even the minor stuff that used to piss me off about picking up women — the flakiness, the constantly shifting emotions, the general refusal to listen to any sort of logical argument — all that goes away when you start to realize they’re basically just teenagers in adult bodies.

  26. jake

    December 31, 2012 at 12:00 am

    X is pretty hardcore in the opposite direction of most of the pickup bullshit. Nice counter balance to all the notch / flag talk.

  27. Bill

    December 31, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Sad that this is even controversial/not standard knowledge. It is generally accepted that women spent thousands of years evolving to resemble large infants (big eyes, high voices, fat faces, etc.) so they could take advantage of men’s paternal instincts. They need men’s pity in order to survive and men’s pity indirectly serves his evolutionary interests by preserving the female to pass on his DNA. It should be obvious that the paternal male-infantile female dynamic is as much (or more) an innate part of male-female relationships as the sex drive. Any attempt to stray from it is artificial and likely to fail.

  28. jake

    December 31, 2012 at 12:00 am

    All fits together. Just our Western feminizing, hyper consumerist (weakening potential dissent) culture paves right over all that. I spent most of my life in the default pattern of trying to find mommy love.

  29. Stefan

    December 31, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Good you´re back, Jake. Love the insights. And the grey-side-stories.

  30. Chewie

    January 10, 2013 at 12:00 am

    Excellent breakdown here. I came to your page because another writer had quoted your theory about girls and cell phones and I liked it.

    Keep up the good work.

  31. soccerrates

    January 20, 2013 at 12:00 am

    Switching over… becoming your own source of value, rather than asking others for it…good idea. State and all that.

  32. boxwino

    February 12, 2013 at 12:00 am

    “if you want a great relationship, start reading parenting psychology books (not the new age feminist ones). and dog training books.”

    I was curious if you had any specific titles you’d recommend looking into?

  33. jake

    February 13, 2013 at 12:00 am

    whatever amazon says is good.

  34. Anonymous

    February 14, 2013 at 12:00 am

    Great synopsis. I had a similar epiphany from which i summed it this way; Women have two frames of reference they know how to be a daughter and (instinctively) a mommy.

    Which one mode she fall into depends on you. If she’s compelled to act the mommy she will likely sense something in amiss.

  35. InD

    February 20, 2013 at 12:00 am

    That’s fucked up.

  36. Mark

    February 26, 2013 at 12:00 am


  37. angel

    May 7, 2013 at 12:00 am

    treat a girl like a child? what? children also get spankings. Should men give girls a good spanking too? lol!!!!!!!!

    • Jp

      September 6, 2014 at 3:14 pm

      I believe that was more common back in the more manly 20th century.

  38. Sam

    May 8, 2013 at 12:00 am

    This is really brilliant. A huge 100,000 Watt light bulb lite up over my head when I read this. Someone who is really smart can take a complicated subject and make it simple. You have out done yourself. I would say this is the single most important post on game I’ve ever read. Did I say I really liked it? :) (Not being snarky)

  39. jake

    May 8, 2013 at 12:00 am

    Thanks, S. Glad you like.

  40. Naomi

    March 26, 2015 at 5:19 am

    This is a very compelling theory. One of your points is that there is always an uneven distribution of control in relationships, but that it varies whether this dominance is in the hands of the male or the female. While I agree with this, I would also argue that this is only the case because we are conditioned to view sexuality in this way, through the influences of pornography and social norms that dictate what we are and are not attracted to. In Sexuality, Pornography, and Method: Pleasure Under Patriarchy, Catherine A. MacKinnon discusses the ways in which sexuality is socially constructed, as she writes ”that which is called sexuality is the dynamic of control by which male dominance […] eroticizes as man and woman, as identity and pleasure. It is also that which maintains and defines male supremacy as a political system” (325). MacKinnon articulates that in our society, the basis of all sexual relationships is inequality, as you concur with in the two relationships you describe. However, MacKinnon also emphasizes that our patriarchal society particularly promotes male dominance and female submission, as in the “alpha male” father-daughter relationship you describe. So it is interesting to me to hear about the mother-son relationships you describe that involve female dominance which results in the weakening of the male as he relies on the female for approval, support, validation, and more. If, like you say, it is possible for either of the sexes to be dominant in relationships as opposed to only men, then I feel it must be possible for there to be a more equal distribution of control, to create equality within relationships.

    • jakey

      March 26, 2015 at 6:34 am

      MacKinnon also emphasizes that Santa does in fact bring us our pppprrrrreessseants!

      No, but really .. thanks for the thoughts. Always interesting to look at ideas. Definitely seeing socially constructed sexuality in all the Western manlets and androgynous loud-talker women. Role reversal, totally happening.

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